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Dutch coffeeshops face ban on strong cannabis




AMSTERDAM ? Soft drugs such as the extra strong Dutch variant of cannabis and hash might soon be banned, forcing coffeeshops in the Netherlands to cut back on the products they offer. The Cabinet is set to discuss the proposal on Thursday.

Research conducted by the Trimbos Institute for addiction indicates that the THC level ? the workable agent in cannabis and hash ? has increased significantly over the years, meaning that marijuana could now be considered a hard drug.

Nederwiet is an extra strong variant of marijuana. It is grown in professionally-equipped greenhouses in the Netherlands and is often referred to as skunk. It is much in demand in Dutch coffeeshops.

And in its annual Drugs Monitor report, the institute said last month that the THC level in Nederwiet has increased to 15 percent compared with 9 percent in 1999. The increase is due to the professional growing techniques.

Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner and Health Minister Hans Hoogervorst are thus urging the Cabinet to conduct further research into THC levels, public news service NOS reported on Tuesday.

A possible ban on very strong cannabis would force coffee shops to change their assortment of cannabis. Nederwiet would in future only be allowed to be sold if its THC content was significantly reduced.

The Trimbos Institute said that between 2.5 and 3 percent of adult Dutch nationals regularly use cannabis. There are between 30,000 and 80,000 cannabis addicts and just 3,500 ask for help, it said.

Donner and Hoogervorst are also calling for a tougher approach to the cross-border drug tourism. Border area municipalities and neighbouring countries have complained for years about the problem.

The open supply of cannabis draws thousands of "drug tourists" from France, Belgium and Germany into Dutch border towns. This often results in high-speed car chases between the police and people trying to smuggle drugs back over the border.

Meanwhile, the Cabinet is also moving to discourage alcohol use among young motorists by reducing the permitted level of alcohol for motorists who have had their driver's licence for less than five years.

Transport Minister Karla Peijs intends to restrict beginning motorists to a blood alcohol level of just 0.2 rather than 0.5 percent. This means that motorists could be over the limit after one drink.

An annual 325 road deaths occur as a result of alcohol and 25 percent of accidents are caused by young men aged between 18 and 24, accounting for 80 deaths each year, RTL reported. About 240,000 obtain a driver's licence each year.
"The Trimbos Institute said that between 2.5 and 3 percent of adult Dutch nationals regularly use cannabis. There are between 30,000 and 80,000 cannabis addicts and just 3,500 ask for help, it said"

Cannabis addicts??? What research has finally determined that cannabis is addictive. I think that more likely there are only 3500, those poor souls with addictive personalities. They are probably also addicted to food, water and Coca-Cola, lol.
Here's hoping the, as usual, saner brains will prevail in the Netherlands. Perhaps they should look for a problem first, not just examine THC content. What tripe!
Pax
Ps, perhaps they should also examine the nicotine content in Marlboro Reds, now there's an addictive drug!
that's what jumped out at me too, bo...

i'm fairly habituated to my recliner & my computer, tho i shun using both at once; synergy, you know. don't want to mix addictions.
Recliner and computer may be OK just don't try tractor and computer, lol
Pax
How can increased potency make it a new drug?? Obviously they don't know about Hawaiin Snow, isn't it 24%??
What about jelly hash? way over 15%.
I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that a coffeeshop sells an Ice hash that comes in at 65% thc so whats that all about..

...Boner...
Transport Minister Karla Peijs intends to restrict beginning motorists to a blood alcohol level of just 0.2 rather than 0.5 percent. This means that motorists could be over the limit after one drink.


GOOD GOD!!!! Somebody needs to get their numbers correct...I'm figuring this was copied right from expatica so i'm not pointing the finger at gadreel for posting it....

isn't 0.5 percent BAC basically a dead person? The legal limit over here is .1 and in some cases .08, so to say 0.2 is ludicrous.

Anyways, I figure they just meant .02 and .05....no big deal, but if not then that's a big ass limit.
It would be a real shame to see The Nederlands drug into the "Drug War" due to their intolerance of well grown marijuana.

Sorry folks but it's been too long. If the plug was pulled on the legal sale of marijuana as we know it today, I can (in my best Cajun accent) Gay-rawn-teee there will be an immediate underground that will sprout and thrive. The powers that be had better say goodbye to the "low" crime rates and a big chunk of tourism revenue for their beloved country for it would never be the same again.

They had also better get a hold of the figures for alcohol content in the beer available as well. Anything over 3.2% can be chucked out right along with the high percentage THC products. What do you really think causes more accidents on average. Please! What's good for the goose ya know?

If this is being seriously considered then it sure will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Underground or not, the THC will exist in high concentration and will be consumed accordingly, legal or not. Look at the United States as a prime example. Does prohibition work? Look to the US once again. Does the Netherlands really want to follow in those big, clumsy footsteps?

On a final note I can't wait to consume the highly concentrated THC products that the Nederlands currently provide in legal form in less than 3 weeks time. Cheers to overcoming yet another obstacle and keeping the freedoms that we have as Tourists and Citizens!

Onward Through The Fog People!
I don't think they are considering that the fundamental nature of cannabis has changed. I have no clue what they are thinking, oh thats it, they aren't. The only thing I can think of is that they just want to decrease potencey which is absurd. Its like saying beer only, no gin, vodka, wiskey etc. These are all natural processes. What I think is scarey is that they are just out looking for reasons to do away with Cannabis? This is my interpretation of whats going on.
lctricity's quote
"They had also better get a hold of the figures for alcohol content in the beer available as well. Anything over 3.2% can be chucked out right along with the high percentage THC products. What do you really think causes more accidents on average. Please! What's good for the goose ya know?"

Alcohol should be illegal......or decrimmed. MHO.

I agree with you, but the accidents that occur due to alcohol related incidents are much higher because they are legal. MJ is not. It is only decrimmed, isn't it?
I love MJ, but if we do legalize it, then I am sure that the number of traffic accidents will increase, respectively.

BTW, I don't believe the 24% in the Hawaiian snow. Nothing with that much potency can look so ragged and uncrystalized. I am saying this from my last visit. The Hawaiian snow during the visit in Jan. certainly appealed to patrick and Stems, but I don't think that I have ever smoked anything like that, with 24%. I should have been higher after smoking Hawaiian snow, but nothing. I was more cooked after smoking a J with Durban Poison.
Depends on the person, I guess.

Peace-
seouleast
What lctricty said. Very well put.

If it wasn't for my A'dam connection, I would NOT be able to get anything good that's reliable.here I am. It's always problems.

I personally am considering home growing. I've read up on it extensively and it just takes some work and experience.
You could always do like I did when in the States, quit smoking all together so you are not a criminal. After they confiscated my best friends pickup truck cause he had a half ounce of weed and some mushrooms, and confiscated an elderly Grandfather's family farm cause he sold some weed and had some plants, I became too scared to smoke here, almost sort of a silent protest. Now they enforce severe gotta-go-to-jail penalties for anyone caught with dope within 1000 yards of any school or child-thing. Sickening and does put a scare into me.

Otis
You could always do like I did when in the States, quit smoking all together so you are not a criminal. After they confiscated my best friends pickup truck cause he had a half ounce of weed and some mushrooms, and confiscated an elderly Grandfather's family farm cause he sold some weed and had some plants, I became too scared to smoke here, almost sort of a silent protest. Now they enforce severe gotta-go-to-jail penalties for anyone caught with dope within 1000 yards of any school or child-thing. Sickening and does put a scare into me.

Otis
...Or move to California or one of the other states where pot possession has been decriminalized.
Pax
Jeez Otis goes from one extreme to the other.
Well I do believe in knowing my limits and testing the "cornerpoints" of any design, then deciding on where to be within them. It's interesting and mind-expanding to go from one extreme to the other, then make a judgement on where the best place is for me to be, in the middle somewhere or at one extreme or the other.

Just think, in 16 days I can piss-away for the piss-test people and apply for things like health insurance and life insurance knowing I'll likely have to pee in the cup.

Otis
Becareful, Jerkypete. PSE&G are on the look out. Plans fly overhead to detect warmer areas. They watch for an increase in electrity use. A woman was recently raided because the electric company thought she used an abnormal amount. Here, she and her kids all had TVs on all the time and other stuff going. Nothing illegal was found. A guy near me in South Jersey was busted for growing. Not because of the smell emitting from the house, which was quite strong I am told, but because of PSE&G.
Supreme court decided a few years ago it was illegal to base a search on electricity usage or thermal imaging.
They seem to use it anyway. I guess it is one of their tools. They probably get the info, then take poor ole Fido for a walk.
I know for a fact they monitor electricity bills here in CA., there was just a story on Yahoo and local news about it happening to a family in Carlsbad a week ago, and the police even said that it was standard procedure. Their bill was running $300.00 a month, which is high in this part of the country, and they were searched after a dog also indicated a possible stash inside. Nothing was found and the family is demanding a written apology from the police....don't hold your breath! I heard from someone up north that thermal imaging isn't allowed, it was supposedly ruled an invasion of privacy. Electric bills are a public record though.

moe.
fire blankets ( available at walmart or any hardware store)
protect from thremal imaging....
I somehow remember warning signs on stuff from coffee shop maps stating canabis is addicitve, so I think they allready have known that, I have allways felt that some of the stuff you can get in Amsterdam or Cali is as strong as a hard drug..when three hits will put your head to the pillow, or cause a white out....
Here's a good one from some stupid website:


Yes. According to CNN, Some of the harmful effects of marijuana use are dry mouth and throat, breathing problems, impaired ability to perform tasks requiring concentration and coordination such as driving a car, increased heart rate, intense anxiety, panic attacks, or paranoia, bronchitis and asthma if used long-term, and suppressed immunity and increased risk to the lungs and reproductive system if used for an extended period of time. "

please nothe the "source' LOL
Pax
Most real experts know that the most dangerous thing about mj is the effects on the lungs, hence the stronger the THC content, the less one has to smoke, the less damage to the lungs, therefore, the higher the THC content the better and less dangerous. The fact that something gets you higher doesn't make it more dangerous. I would contend that the more available stronger THC products are the less likely that people would move on to harder drugs, especially if it was reasonably priced (ayt least here in the US). Witness, the rapid rise in heroin addiction amongst the youth in the US since it is so much cheaper and purer nowadays in the US, high grade mj has become increasingly harder to obtain for most and much more expensive. Heroin and cocaine are more available, cheaper and of higher quality than mj availavble to most in the US.
.......Or move to California or one of the other states where pot possession has been decriminalized.
Pax

There are no such states, in the U.S. There are some states (six, nine?) that have decriminalized use for folk as part of their medical care, for specific conditions, under a doctor's supervision. But that's a far cry from decriminalizing across the board.

But, for what it's worth, I do believe Nevada has an initiative that's gathering signatures to be the first state to decriminalize completely.

Ron
.......Or move to California or one of the other states where pot possession has been decriminalized.
Pax

There are no such states, in the U.S. There are some states (six, nine?) that have decriminalized use for folk as part of their medical care, for specific conditions, under a doctor's supervision. But that's a far cry from decriminalizing across the board.

But, for what it's worth, I do believe Nevada has an initiative that's gathering signatures to be the first state to decriminalize completely.

Ron

Possesion is decriminalized in New York. A first time offender is subject to a $75 fine which increases if you get caught again, but it is only a violation.
.......Or move to California or one of the other states where pot possession has been decriminalized.
Pax

There are no such states, in the U.S. There are some states (six, nine?) that have decriminalized use for folk as part of their medical care, for specific conditions, under a doctor's supervision. But that's a far cry from decriminalizing across the board.

But, for what it's worth, I do believe Nevada has an initiative that's gathering signatures to be the first state to decriminalize completely.

Ron
The Nevada decrim initiative was shot down last year. There may be another in the offing. When I say "decriminialized" I mean that possession of up to an ounce gets you a ticket and a fine, not jail time.
Pax
Hey LTD:

Would these laws include being caught flying back in from Amsterdam with a gram or two in your luggage?
Gidget, that would put you under US federal laws, another thing altogether.
Pax
Hey LTD:

Would these laws include being caught flying back in from Amsterdam with a gram or two in your luggage?Unfortunately, those nasty inspections are carried out by Federal officers, enforcing a different set of laws.
Also Ron, I'm fairly sure that simple possession is decriminalized in Cali too - although the fine may be closer to $150.
Cannabis contradictions in Holland, the never-ending story.

Dutch Justice Minister Donner and Health Minister Hoogervorst want to ban Nederweed from coffeeshops, high THC marihuana threatens the health of smokers, they state.
The Amsterdam City Council wants to legalise the production of Nederweed, in order to get a transparent situation, and to get the production out of the hands of criminals. Who will win, The Hague or Amsterdam?


Translation: ?Smoking Nederweed can have very damaging physical and mental effects. The number of reports of psychosis amongst the youth, after smoking Dutch hash has increased enormously, according to the Ministry of Health.?
Source: De Telegraaf, April 7, 2004.

This is Minister Donner?s motivation to go after the coffeeshops, a very false motivation, that is. Since 1997, youths under 18 were no longer allowed to enter coffeeshops, so the youngsters started buying on the street. On the street, the youth get offered all kinds of drugs, not only cannabis. Yet, the Ministers Donner and Hoogervorst blame the coffeeshops for causing problems in the bodies and minds of people that are not allowed into coffeeshops. Maybe it is the poly drug use of our youth that causes ?very damaging physical and mental effects? on our youth, it is certainly not to blame on Holland?s licensed coffeeshops.

Justice Minister Donner will use every excuse he can come up with to go after coffeeshops, their suppliers and visitors. His latest attack on cannabis and coffeeshops is co-based on the increased percentage of THC in the homegrown marihuana, Nederweed. According to Minister Hoogervorst, this increase in potency is the cause of many cases of schizophrenia amongst users of cannabis, which makes him think high potency Nederweed and Nederhash can well be considered harddrugs now. Minister Donner will launch an investigation into the THC percentage in Nederweed, to be able to prove there is a significant increase, as Hoogervorst claims.
In case Donner does not like the dimensions of that increase, he will ban Nederweed and its extract, Nederhash from coffeeshops, and put them in between heroin, cocaine and amphetamines on the hard drugs list. As far as I am aware, there is no standard for the percentage of THC in cannabis, so when is the percentage too high?
Donner will cause worldwide panic amongst tourists planning to smoke cannabis in Amsterdam, as always. As always, I will have to explain the smokers around the world what the implications of Donner?s brain farts could be, if they would be accepted. It practice, it means that Donner will set a certain figure, as the line between cannabis that can be sold through coffeeshops as softdrugs and cannabis that will be considered as harddrugs, with all penal consequences of hard drugs.
I am afraid that Donner will try to set the line on 6 %, which practically excludes all Nederweed, except from some outdoor varieties, from Dutch coffeeshops. If the same percentage goes for hash, which is an extracted concentrate of cannabis, it will exclude all hash, except the poisonous soapbar, which hardly contains any THC.
That means that Jack Herer and the White Widow will become outlaws in Holland, and all their resinous sister plants as well!
Donner has realised he has no power to close the coffeeshops, after his proposals to ban smoking and foreign smokers from coffeeshops, so he is going at the cannabis industry from every other angle he can find.
Under Donner, we no longer have raids on growrooms, like the old days, nowadays, we have full out razzia?s; the Police locks off complete flat apartment buildings, scan all apartments with thermal equipment, and kick in the doors of houses that show unusual heat. In that case, two months ago, the police kicked in 14 doors, behind 7 of them was a growroom, in the other 7 houses the heating was just up high?
A few weeks later, the Police locked off a complete neighbourhood, after the Utility company tips them about disappearing electricity. Kids leaving the neighbourhood had to open their school bags for the police at the roadblocks. These razzia?s make marihuana growers look like threats to society, while real criminals are being released because of the failure of the Dutch Justice system.

Minister Donner and Hoogervorst say they want to ban high percentage THC marihuana for the good of our Dutch society, under pressure of several prohibitionist governments. They are as dumb as a donkey?s behind. Their proposed anti cannabis measurements will endanger the health of cannabis smokers more than in the present situation, and will get organised crime back in the Dutch cannabis trade.
Over the last 15 years, Dutch homegrowers have caused a major change in the sales through coffeeshops, by supplying the cannabis industry with the best marihuana they could grow. Before that, the sales in coffeeshops consisted of foreign cannabis products, for about 95 %, all merchandise was smuggled into the Netherlands. The other 5 % was made up by outdoor grown marihuana, with a low THC percentage.
Hash, mainly from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Morocco, were brought into the Netherlands by the truck- and shipload, by powerful organisations, causing a lot of gang related crime in our country.
Today, 80 % of the cannabis sales in the Dutch coffeeshops consist of Dutch marihuana, Nederweed. The Dutch Homegrown Division wiped out organised crime involved in hash smuggling, by supplying a better quality cannabis product than the ?old? hash producing countries. Huge hash transports stopped when hash started stacking up in Dutch warehouses, it was no longer selling. Hash is now only available in small quantities of high quality, smuggled in by adventurers, like in the beginning. The sales of foreign hash and (seeded) marihuana are only 20 % of the Dutch cannabis market now, that figure will only decrease more in the feature, due to the production of hash out of Nederweed, the so-called Nederhash.
Even if Minister Donner gets his will done, the Dutch smokers will not stop smoking, and coffeeshops can only keep selling low-grade weed and hash. The demand for cannabis will not disappear, which will awake the sleeping giants of the former hash trade. The same criminal organisations, and some new gangs, will start the transport lines from Morocco, Afghanistan and Pakistan back up in no time. Gangs will start fighting over market shares again; bullets will fly on crowded squares and streets. To get the huge transports across borders, customs and police officers will again be intimidated and/or corrupted by ruthless gangsters. In other words, Minister Donner?s proposed measurements against cannabis and coffeeshops will benefit criminals and harm Dutch society, big time! If Donner does not realise all this, he is just plain dumb.

Minister Hoogervorst, our Minister of Health with dental problems, states that the use of cannabis is the cause of the increasing number of people suffering from psychosis and schizophrenia. The use of cannabis might trigger psychosis in people, like the use of alcohol, XTC, LSD, mushrooms, cocaine, heroin, morphine and a long list of other drugs, or a tragic event in the family. Remkes and Donner are basing their statistics on estimated figures, as always. They state that in the Netherlands only 400.000 people use cannabis, 2.5 % of the population! This is absolutely untrue, but if it were true, it would only underline the success of the current Dutch Drugs Policy!
In spite of all criticism on our country?s liberal drugs policy and cannabis selling coffeeshops, only 2.5 % of the Dutch population actually uses cannabis, with the best possible availability of this soft drug in the world! Donner should be pleased with that, the cannabis consumption in the prohibitionist US, for instance, is 9.3 %, according to UN Drug Abuse figures. This report also shows that cannabis consumption in the Netherlands are 5.6 %, more than twice as much as Donner and Hoogervorst state in their proposals. It also unveils that the Netherlands are in the 31st position in cannabis consumption percentage, far under the US, the UK, Spain, France, Germany and Belgium, to mention a few nations that criticise the Dutch liberal cannabis policy! Minister Donner and Hoogervorst know the figures in this list, yet, they state that the Netherlands only has 2.5 % of its population using cannabis. That makes them frauds, in my opinion.
Source: UNODC ? Global Illicit Drug Trends 2003.
If Donner and Hoogervorst?s given figures, 2.5 %, were true however, Donner and Hoogervorst should be proudly telling the world to allow coffeeshops to reduce the use of cannabis in all other countries as well, instead of trying to get them all closed in their own country.
If the Dutch smokers would be forced into smoking low-grade cannabis in coffeeshops, they will have to smoke more joints to get the high they expect out of smoking cannabis, forcing them to smoke twice as much joints as they did when smoking strong Nederweed. This does not really contribute to a better health, especially when one considers most of the Dutch cannabis smokers use tobacco in their joints! Minister Remkes, who smokes tobacco himself, does not seem to care about that, he intends to prevent mental diseases with his proposed measurements, seemingly not aware of the certain increase of serious lung damage amongst cannabis users. Minister Hoogervorst is an incompetent Minister of Health, if he did not foresee all this, before he shouted his smelly loud mouth.
It would also make smoking a lot more expensive for cannabis smokers; they would have to buy twice the amount of cannabis they used to buy, to fill the double amount of joints they will start smoking.

Of course, the coffeeshop owners raise their voice in protest, with very good arguments, as you can imagine, but that will not impress Donner and Hoogervorst so much, as they consider my colleagues and me the roots of all evil. They will ignore our criticism, as always, and just carry on with what they have cooked up, if they get the consent of the Parliament. That will be hard, only the CDA wants coffeeshops closed and cannabis banned, with the surprising new support of D?66, one of their coalition partners. Their other coalition partner, the VVD, has no stance about cannabis, as always. All other parties do not wish a society without coffeeshops, they realise it would only take the sales and consumption of cannabis to the streets, mixed up with all other drugs and their users.
The strongest opposition, in my opinion, comes from the political fractions of the Amsterdam City Council, all of which, besides Donner?s CDA, of course, which clearly turn the Donner/Hoogervorst plans down. They are presenting their plans to legalise the production of cannabis for coffeeshops a day before Donner will plead for research into the THC level in Parliament, on Thursday, April 8. The two ignorant Ministers cannot ignore the criticism of the Amsterdam City Council; it will make them give up on their stupid idea.

Donner?s anti cannabis plans are as follows:

Coffeeshops near schools and in urban area will no longer be tolerated.
++That regulation exists since 1996, all coffeeshops near schools have been moved since then. Donner picked up an old stick to beat up on a dead dog.

Cannabis tourism in the border areas will be discouraged.
++Sure, like stopping the foreign visitors on their way back home, after buying cannabis. These actions are executed by the Netherlands, together with Germany and/or Belgium. Foreigners can just keep buying cannabis in Haarlem and Amsterdam, however.

Eliminate all cannabis producers, penalties for cannabis production up to a maximum penalty of 5 years in prison.
++Nederweed out, foreign hash in? All the money involved in the production and trade in cannabis will no longer flow into the struggling Dutch economy, it will now go to Morocco, Pakistan, India, Thailand, Mexico, Columbia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, South Africa and Nepal. These are the countries that produce hash and marihuana too, we sell products from this country from our coffeeshops already. The small transports of high quality foreign cannabis will be replaced by mega transports of low grade hash, soft drugs will again be in the hands of tough criminals.
The Netherlands need to build a few huge new prisons to lock up all cannabis growers that get caught by Donner?s cunning police officers, all Dutch prison cells are full.

Ban cannabis with a high THC level, for health issues.
++How about banning liquor with a high alcohol percentage, like whisky, vodka, gin,
and rum, we all know these substances do kill people? Let?s put all these on the black list too, so bars can only sell beer and wine from then?.

The ?Manifest to normalise the soft drugs market?, published by all Amsterdam political fractions, except CDA, takes the following stance:

Legalise the production of Nederweed for coffeeshops.

Check the quality and production methods of this legally produced cannabis.

No more restrictions on the coffeeshops stock, drop the 500 grams limit.

Stop the export of Nederweed by acting against unlicensed growers.

The Manifest states that criminalising Nederweed would cause huge social problems and create thousands of criminal records. They do accept that Nederweed should be investigated for THC percentages, from the medical point of view.

I just read that the Cabinet, which means the coalition of CDA, VVD and D?66 have agreed with the Donner/Hoogervorst proposals. This means there will be an investigation into the percentage of THC and the long terms of cannabis use. If these researches show the THC level damages the health of cannabis smokers, the sales of Nederweed will be prohibited. This would create a new market in the Netherlands, good, quality Nederweed will be for sale in the black circuit from then, for high prices, as they are now considered a hard drug. It will then be totally out of control of any authority, even Donner?s and Hoogervorst?s, well done, gentlemen! The struggling Dutch harddrugs dealers will gladly add cannabis to their wide range of products.
The opposition in the Dutch Parliament will not like this at all, they would like to see cannabis legalised.

Sceptic Members of Dutch Parliament had a nice comment on all the commotion around THC and coffeeshops, in the Telegraaf of April 7, 2004:

?Sceptic Members of Parliament point out this is a ?fake discussion?, because it does not make a difference to smoke one Nederweed joint, or two joints of foreign origin?
It does, dear politicians, we have to smoke twice as much to get a proper high, including twice as much tobacco, hash does not burn in a joint without tobacco!

That?s all, for the time being, I will keep you informed about the follow-ups.

Nol van Schaik.
Coffeeshop entrepreneur, author of ?The Dutch Experience, 30 years of hash and grass in coffeeshops? www.hempcity.net


www.unodc.org
United Nations Drug Figures
www.manonvandergarde.nl
Manifest to normalise the soft drugs market
www.detelegraaf.nl
For the full newspaper articles.
Great analysis as always Nol. You don't post often here at Channels, but you always seem to know when your in depth knowledge is needed and then you give us one of these gems.
I hope to some day meet you (maybe you'll join us all at the 10th Anniversary), and thank you personally for your input here and perseverance in staying on top of the whole subject of cannabis in the Netherlands.
God Bless you Nol!!

Will you be in Harleem in June?
I can see that the health and justice ministers need a wake up call. I can see where Nol is coming from, but those people that are in power now.... who put them there?
Do votes not count in the Netherlands? If the majority of the people voted them in, then they can vote them out, can't they? When are the next elections?
I see that the majority of the people in Holland do not smoke MJ, so doesn't popular vote count more than the minority? I mean, I love the Dam and its liberal laws, but it is a democratic country. I think that we have a conflict of interest in the Dutch society, but that conflict only arises out of a mere 2.5% of the population or 5.6%, depending on which source you want to believe.
Maybe a poll is in order here. An outright vote where one man has one vote to see if they want to keep things the way they are or change everything about coffeeshops.
It would be scary, I think, cause most of the votes that do come in will be against MJ. Like the laws, it is only tolerated and NOT legal. That must mean that the majority of the people voted against having it legal.

Don't get me wrong, I love MJ as you all know, but we need to get to the bottom of this to see what the majority of Dutch citizens want and not diddle daddle in what smokers want. I think the people of the Netherlands need a new ballot initiative to see where they want to go with this. Otherwise it will be a slow death for all the coffeeshops.

As long as the wishes of the majority are upheld, I am all for whatever the decision. But this slow process of killing off coffeeshops one at a time just plain sucks.
Maybe 5 years WILL be too long for my next vacation.

Thanks Nol, for the thought provoking input.

Peace-
seouleast
OK, some food for thought here...

Assuming they did pass this boneheaded regulation, how could the coffeeshops get around it? After all, the Dutch are famous for their ingenuity in dealing with such situations. The no-smoke environment for employees regulation from last year was a great example. My sense is that the shops would again find a way to get around this.

My question is therefore how they might do so. Maybe selling the strong herb mixed with non-THC cannabis leaves in a packet to achieve an "average" THC content, then you merely "clean" what you bought when you bring it to your table to smoke?

There are always loopholes to such laws, and they will surely be exploited if this stupid law is passed.

And in any event, my guess is the Amsterdam city council will put up a tough fight and defeat this. Plus it would take a while to implement, which would provide time for court appeals, lobbying, and maybe even changes in the coalition itself. By the way, when is the next parliamentary election?
Cabinet Moves To Ban Super-Strong Cannabis
Posted by CN Staff on April 09, 2004 at 09:14:19 PT
Breaking News Story
Source: Expatica.com

Amsterdam ? The Dutch cabinet decided on Thursday to ban the sale of super-strong homegrown cannabis if a commissioned study reveals that the soft drug has become too powerful.
Ministers also decided to ask municipal councils to restrict as much as possible the sale of cannabis from coffeeshops near schools and political borders.

But opposition party Labour PvdA said the cabinet plan was "unwise" and that soft drugs should remain controllable. A spokesman said if soft drugs became illegal, authorities would lose supervision of their trade and use.

Research by the Trimbos Institute for Addiction indicates that the THC level ? the workable agent in cannabis and hash ? has increased significantly over the years, meaning that Dutch-grown marijuana, Nederwiet, could now be considered a hard drug.

Nederwiet is an extra-strong variant of marijuana. It is grown in professionally-equipped greenhouses and is often referred to as skunk. It is much in demand in Dutch coffeeshops.

And in its annual Drugs Monitor report, the institute said last month that the THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) level in Nederwiet has increased to 15 percent compared with 9 percent in 1999. The increase is due to professional growing techniques.

Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner, Interior Minister Johan Remkes and Health Minister Hans Hoogervorst urged the cabinet to conduct further research into THC levels and investigate a possible ban on the sale of strong cannabis.

Deputy Prime Minister Gerrit Zalm ? who spoke on behalf of Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, who was on a State visit to China this week ? said the cabinet's cannabis legislative proposal will be presented to Parliament next week, newspaper De Volkskrant reported.

The legislation proposes further research into the health effects of strong cannabis and toughening jail terms for large-scale cannabis cultivation from four to five years.

Source: Expatica.com (Amsterdam)
Published: April 9, 2004
Copyright: 2004 Expatica News
Contact: feedback@expatica.com
Website: http://www.expatica.com/

Related Articles:

Dutch Coffeeshops Face Ban on Strong Cannabis
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18594.shtml

Dutch Government to Weigh Cannabis Clamp Down
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18593.shtml

Dutch State Pot Is No Heady Stuff for Supplier
http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread17248.shtml
This is when I miss Hans. He would know the answer.
P.S boner:Is that your dog in your avatar? What breed is it?That dog is cute as hell.

TheGoat


No its not my dog it's a English Bulldog (before anyone jumps on my back about "British Bulldogs" - do some research and you'll see that the only proper Bulldogs are the English ones) - currently saving my money for various trips and for my 1st Bulldog (they currently sell for £1800 or $3000 probaly something to do with the Osbournes) - The story behind the dog pictured is its mother had a couple of bad pregnancies (SP?) so when she did eventually have some babies this one pictured was the only one of the litter that lived (I think he was named Bertie!), I love these dogs so I thought it would be a nice avatar..

...Boner...
pray it never happens.


At least not till July. but never is better.
Cannabis contradictions in Holland, the never-ending story.




I think this just about sums it all up "contradictions & the never ending story" - lots of different things have been and will be said over and over again and it seems to me that the dutch always seem to find a way of getting around these things..

...Boner...
Well said Boner........All Of us Amsterdam lovers can do nothing but hope and wait. And hopefully some citizens in the netherlands will Write their representitives,protest or whatever it takes to make things right. But with all the tourist dollars rolling into A'dam i dont see them ACTUALLY banning neiderweit and neiderhash......Those two things are what bring alot of tourists every year......Tourists=$$$$.......$$$=Happy polititicians,business owners etc............Neiderwiet and nederhash=Happy Channelites....EVERBODY WINS.

P.S boner:Is that your dog in your avatar? What breed is it?That dog is cute as hell.

TheGoat
I found this on out there.

First Chamber - last held 25 May 2003 (next to be held May 2007);

Second Chamber - last held 22 January 2003 (next to be held January 2007).

God bless and Thank You Nol for being our crusader.
Thanks Nol, that was at the very least 'Eye-Opening'. A whole lot to take in in one moment.
You know the one thought that always leaves me puzzled, it that it is still a plant. Rather grown in the Nederlands or in USA or Mexico or anywhere,,, it is still a plant.
Debates go on as to rather the strongest weed is in the Nederlands or the West Coast of USA, or Hawaii. The jury may still be out, but after a few hits of the West Coast varieties, and a few of the Nederlands Best, it is at best a close draw.
Percentages of THC should in no way affect an outcome as to determination of rather a plant can be a drug.
A plant is a plant is a plant is a plant.
In going along with Seouleast's statements: Alcohol is the number one killer of all time. Yet, I still would not suggest making it illegal. I do not drink, but facts is facts. When we had Prohibition in the States we created Al Capone.(And, he was somewhat of a local hero in his area) You just can't tell people what they can and can not do, when it come to their choice of consumption particulars... It just makes them consume more.
If we could somehow break this enigma of Ghanja being so tabou to talk about in the first place, we may have a chance of bringing the true light of day to the situation.
One thought that always boggles my mind.
The Dutch and German languages have a word for Hemp, I think Hennep and Hanaf, wonder why they don't oust the 'M' word, call a duck a duck, bust the illusion and move on to more important issues, like instaling those doggy toilets...LOL...
Lets face it, the economy is now based in a good portion on the existance of the Coffeeshops. Yes, I know the regular/non Ghanja Flower Industry is huge as well. Sure, Coffeeshopping is not the only reason for a visit to the Nederlands, but then again there is not just one or two shops. Lots of Shops, cause there is Lots of people who enjoy the Ghanja, and peacefully I might Add.
Now, back to the Doggy Toilets...LOL...
To go along with the comments about alcohol and LastHammelts most recent comment. I too am bewildered by how illegal MJ is in America. I don't know how many of you know about Salvia Divinorum (divine sage) but this little plant contains the most psychoactive natural chemicals on the planet and it is completely legal in the United States! You can grow it, smoke it, Sell it, and buy it anywhere any time. I recommend buying and smoking some.

Note: This stuff is not cannabis nor is it like the stoney high we all love!!! If you want a really nice trip, then you are in for a treat if you've never had this experience. It will make those shrooms or LSD seem old fashioned.

For more info I suggest www.sagewisdom.org

This is a very good site, probably the best out there on the subject. You can also order the actual leaves from this site.

Enjoy
No clue why this never occured to me before, but I bet you could take some of the leaves and vaporise them in a volcano or similar device. Has anyone ever done this? I think I might just bring some to A'dam with me next time and take some to De Kuil and have them Vaporised! Do you think the staff at De Kuil would do this?
TheGoatMan1 said:

"Well said Boner........All Of us Amsterdam lovers can do nothing but hope and wait."

I respectfully disagree. We can start a writing campaign targeting media sources to make our opinions known. There are many talented writers on this site, people like LastHamlet, GT and several others, who could send a few choice comments and arguments to various media or politicians in Holland.

Perhaps Nol could provide some names and addresses. My sense is the parliament would start reconsidering this asinine decision once they start realizing how much tourist money they stand to lose if the ban goes into effect.
But don't you need a certain amount of moisture to make a Vapo work??

Are Salvia leaves strong then?
Are Salvia leaves strong then?

Youd have to smoke alot of just plain salvia leaves to "get off".
What you want is the salvia extract.....the higher number the better.

Its a very strange experience....although id like to experiment further since I've heard of Really insane alice in wonderland type stuff,but i didnt get that effect....but its was very starnge because time stood still....(I was in amsterdam in my hotel room by the way) I Hit a bong full of the stuff and as soon as i exhaled it felt like i was frozen and couldnt move....even trying my hardest.......aand i had completely forgotten what i was doing....All i knew was that i couldnt move.That sensation went away in about 1 minute maybe one and a half,but i felt strange for like 30-45 minutes afetr that.

Available In headshops ALL OVER the U.S, and of course....available in amsterdam.The kind i bought even had a warning that said"warning:For extreme Psychonauts only"

TheGoat
http://www.wellcoolstuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=SD1
Minister Zalm, Finance, in on the coalition, but a VVD man, has stated the following:

"We have accepted Donner's proposals, but the main issue in this is the coffeeshops at the borders, and the coffeeshops near schools.
The THC percentage will be researched, but nothing will change until it has been proven that cannabis is causing physical and mental harm. It will take years to get all this research done, so there will not be a ban on high THC Ndereweed in coffeeshops for a long time, if it ever will be."

This means the measurements will not at all apply on Haarlem, Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, Utrecht, etc. Only our colleagues it the border areas have to take care. Coffeeshaop had to move 200 meters from scholls in 1997 already, they did, the few that did not, better do it now!

That's all for now, come on over, roll up strong THC joints and enjoy!
Always glad to read a post by Nol.
Nol,

Thanks a lot for the timely info, much appreciated. I've posted this to some other websites to get the word out.

Have to stop by your shop in July when I'm in town, hope to chat with you then.
Thanks again Nol, glad you are keeping us updated here at the Channels...

Have Fun in Sunny Spain and please send Maruska (and Marcel;) my best regards.

Hope to see all of you again soon,
BlueBerry
Although i have total respect for 'Nol' for what he is and for what he does i have no respect for all the ass kissers on this site including dannymac, chooby, seouleast, max flower and blueberry
I too share a lack of respect only mine is directed at the wormy cowards who hide and flame. Whats next ? hitting us with your purse ?
My balls your chin.
Add me to the list...

...and it's not ass-kissing to thank someone for posting info that many of us are curious about.

The best way to thank a coffeeshop owner though, is to be a good and regular customer!
This may have already been discussed so forgive me if it has been. All these questions regarding the Dutch Govt. possilbly making high THC content cannabis part of the hard drug category doesn't seem that unreasonalbe (from their perspective). Think about the mushrooms. Are dried mushrooms fundamentally any different than fresh mushrooms? No, of course not. Apparently in the drying process (curing process) the active chemicals effect on the brain increase about 10 fold. However, keep in mind this is the same mushroom left out to dry a few days. Now, dried mushrooms are illegal and considered hard drugs. I think the comparrison between dried shrooms and "super cannabis" is an example of the type of rationale behind the sentiment being expressed.
just want to point out that "drug czar" john walters refers to the strong hydro coming from canada as the "Crack" of marijuana..


Hey next time some guy wants to sell you 3 microwaves for 5 dollars.. its
cause hes got to get a bag of skunk
All the drying/curing process does is improve the taste, smell, and consistency of the herb. It does not increase thc at all.

I think any plan to reduce thc levels is absurd. For one, how the hell are they going to enforce that with new pot coming in every day, it would take a lot of resources. Second, some have already mentioned that the stronger the pot is, the less you will have to smoke, thus the less damage to your lungs. For those of us who use medically, you will find that while some dank indica will ease your pains(I have I.B.S. and I wake every morning nausiated and in severe pain) schwag or even less quality outdoor will have an adverse effect, and all I feel is paranoia and my stomach still hurts.

I think this plan is akin to some states(like my own) blue laws that make it so you can only buy 3.2 beer. If you have ever seen slc punk, you may have heard the main character say something like this, I paraphrase "a drunk is just going to drink twice as much beer to get drunk, and then you'll have a fat drunk"

A pothead is still going to smoke till he/she is high, but with shitty herb, that pothead is just going to have a nasty hack and be more paranoid.IMO

I am planning on returning to Amsterdam in December. Before I left for my last trip there was a lot of rumors regarding dutch ids and smoke free coffeeshops, well so far neither has panned out and I had a blast on my trip. I hope this does not pan out either, but if it does, can someone post the news here immedietly(I'm sure this would happen anyway)

I am booking my trip in July, and I guess you could say I am just a shallow pothead, but changes in pot quality will affect my decision making process about wheather or not to plan this trip.
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